posted 09-19-98 04:30 AM         

Please try to give an indication of the SUBJECT of your question in the box where it says Subject.

Which new method of iodene and HI extraction?

Anything else except for what?

Are you talking about the *Dark Man*s ramblings on Chlorine?

posted 09-19-98 07:46 AM         

I suppose Im a little concerend about the future of the quality of this board.

What is great about the Hive is that the Answers:Questions ratio is so high. You can normally expect two or three considered and intelligent answers to any decent question. If more questions are being asked then there will be less answers to go around. Not only that but if the questions become repetative, badly written or vague it may well drive away the more serious chemists around here.

Personally Ive got nothing against speed. Everyone I know does X and Speed together. I think that the standard on this board needs to be kept high.

For me though, the chemistry of Meth manufacture as spoken about here is a little too simple to grab my attention.

Now If you all wanted to talk about making P2P out of Tolulene, then I may bee interested.

posted 09-19-98 12:12 PM         

Yes I am on the wrong board. If you look back a few days you wont see any posts from me here. I am here because I was concerned at Strikes comments about this board becoming overrun with inexperienced questions, and so forcing those more knowledgeable to redirrect their attentions away from Meth Chemistry. I believe the science of speed manufacture is as worthy of attention as that of any other drug. What I am trying to do here is answer those questions that I do have experience of (Such as the production of HI gas) so that others with actual knowledge of Meth Chemistry will have their hands free to dicuss other topics.

If people want their questions answered all they have to do is write them in a way that they can be easily understood.

Youre still waiting for an answer? You poor thing.

What question are you talking about? If you want to know wether anything can substitute for H3PO4, I would say no. There are other ways of producing HI, all of which have been discussed on this board at one time or another, and many of which are similar, and use Iodene or its salts, but this is by far the easiest, least dangerous one. Plus the chems involved are non-suspicious.

What is the problem with H3PO4? Have you contacted Hydroponics places?

As far as the Red Phos. question goes, I dont know. Does anyone have any knowledge on this subject?

Everyman

BTW - I want joking on the matter of producing meth from Tolulene. It looks quite good to me.

Necessary chems: Tolulene, H2SO4, Glacial Acetic Acid, Calcium Hypochlorite, Al, HgCl2 (or other soluable salt of Mercury) Urea, NaOH, HCl, a tiny amount of either tetrabutylammonium iodide or tetrafluro borate, and a few solvents.

Thats it, NO EPHEDRIN OR PSEUDO-EPHEDRIN.

posted 09-19-98 05:16 PM         

"manufacture of methamphetamine from P2P and methylamine yields (+,-) methamphetamine, whereas the reduction of (-) ephedrine or (+) pseudoephedrine yields (+) methamphetamine." (Skinner, Harry F., Methamphetamine Synthesis Via Hydriodic Acid/Red Phosphorus Reduction of Ephedrine," Forensic Science International, 48 (1990) pp. 123-134.

Unless of course you have something else in mind for the P2P, heh-heh., ;-)

posted 09-20-98 04:05 AM         

For anyone who hasnt been reading the same stuff that I have, the route is

Toluene + Cl2(gas) --> Benzyl chloride
Acetic Acid + SO4(gas) -->acetic anhydride
Benz.Chlor. +Acetic Anhydride --->via Electrolysis ---> P2P

I was then thinking of a simple Al/Hg reductive ammination on the ketone to get the amphetamine.

So the problem is that the (-) isomer actually detracts from the potency of the(+) isomer?

posted 09-21-98 12:01 AM         

Results and Discussion

The HI/red P reduction of ephedrine to methamphetamine involves a cyclic oxidation of the iodide anion to iodine and reduction of iodine back to the anion by the red phosphorus or phosphoric acids.
The stereospecifity of the reduction results from mechanistic factors as well as the diastereoisomeric nature of the ephedrines. Ephedrine and psuedo-ephedrine are 1-phenyl-1-hydroxy-2-methylamino-propane; each contains two chiral centers at the No. 1 and No. 2 carbons of the propane chain. Reduction to methamphetamine eliminates the chiral center at the No. 1 carbon.
The diastereoisomers, (-)ephedrine and (+)pseudoephedrine, are reduced to (+) methamphetamine, whereas the enantiomers reduct to (-) methamphetamine. The (+ -) mixture of either ephedrine reduces to racemic methamphetamine. The enantiomer and diastereoisomer of ephedrine selected as the precursor dictates what isomer of methamphetamine will be produced.
The interesting aspect of the HI/red P ephedrine reduction is that P2P is produced as an impurity in the synthesis. Normally, discovery of P2P in a clandestine laboratory indicates that (+ -) methamphetamine, is the product. However, the P2P is formed as an impurity and has no bearing on the enantiomeric form of the synthesized methamphetamine, since the enantiomer of the methamphetamine product depends solely on the enantiomer of the ephedrine precursor.
=====================
I understand what stereoisomers/chemistry, enantiomers, diastereoisomers are, I'm pretty sure. But alas, I'm confused as ever now.

I am definitely too tired to think right. Plus, this is beginning to go over my head.

Labrat where are ya'? :-)

posted 09-21-98 02:38 PM         

OP - Threads in question are:

Acetic Anhydride---again - Aq. Dis.
http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum2/HTML/000079.html

alkylbenzenes - Chem. Dis.(last post 5/5/98)
I would hyperlink it but it seems to have completely dissapeared.

posted 09-21-98 08:40 PM         

Old users that started with the P2P meth describe the difference pretty similarly too. I also remember regular dextro-amphetamine diet pills differently. They would calm and focus you - easy to see why they were used for attention-deficit then. All this will vary with individuals of course, as drug of choice varies in addiction. Every addiction from alcohol to speed is being attributed to plain dopamine release by drug profs. Experience makes me think that can't be complete, but they use it to bong their patients out of addiction denial.

I'd be very interested reading on this if you do locate and want to post. I've only read the academic side filtered through drug treatment lit.

posted 09-24-98 09:11 PM         

As beagle boy said above, there are those who swear by the ol' P2P meth. I've known some of 'em myself. Someone else I know (not me of course) has personally bioassayed both types of meth (from P2P & from pfed or eph). This person feels that the P2P route still produces pretty good shit (even if it ain't the most potent).

So...I am still VERY interested in discussing what you (or whomever gets the credit) have proposed here. But first, I gotta do some more reading...meantime, don't let this thread die.

posted 09-25-98 06:14 AM         

The chemistry of the process that I described above does deserve to be discussed here. Ill be starting a new thread on that subject in the next 24hrs.